Writing New Codes for Creativity: Attunement Practices for Coming Home to the Body, with Nibras Ibnomer

Multi-talented Modern Mantra creative and designer, Nibras Ibnomer, joins studio co-founder Elijah for a conscious, emotive and fluid exploration that will resonate with all artists and creatives.

To begin, they discuss one of the biggest blocks to authentic self expression: fear of judgement, and our unconscious bias towards likeability. This programming permeates how we show up in the world, and ultimately, how we create. How to rewrite these codes?

Nibras and Elijah radically reframe the creative process from a holistic perspective: shifting the focus from the creative end-product, to how we create.

How can integrating embodiment practices and attunement rituals into our creative process support us in transcending the age-old trope of the suffering artist?

The conversation concludes with a deeper paradigm shift: the creator as a divine vessel for ideas and creations, not as owner. What can happen when you embody this approach in your own creative pursuits? Tune in to find out.

Highlights

• 08:38 Mirrors of Self: whose perception of us matters?
• 16:53 Internal like-ability programming, and how we self modulate
• 25:21 How do you feel in your body as you create?
• 29:21 Creating without suffering: rituals for coming home to the body
• 37:45 Holistic attunement practices for working as a collective
• 44:47 Divine creation: The artist as vessel vs owner

Nibras Ibnomer

Multi-disciplinary creative, venture designer, user experience designer, writer, and strategist. Working on moving towards ‘Humaning beautifully’: figuring out emotions, wellbeing, psycho-spiritual flourishing and sharing in many multi-media forms along the way. Recently a resident at Medley Berlin working on creating metaphor-based maps of healing modalities, tools and techniques. Previously a product designer in London and remotely with Cleo, Stint and others.

Connect with Nibras

Twitter: https://twitter.com/heynibras

Website: https://www.heynibras.com/

Thanks for listening! Follow us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok or find us on LinkedIn! Join the ModernMantra.co mailing list here.

Transcript

Transcript: Elijah/Nibras podcast

00;00;00;22 - 00;00;01;08 Nibras Hello?

00;00;01;22 - 00;00;03;20 Elijah Hey, Nibras.

00;00;03;28 - 00;00;06;01 Nibras Hi, Elijah. How are you feeling?

00;00;06;12 - 00;00;24;18 Elijah I am feeling the primary feeling right now is excited. Yeah. Feel like even though we haven't done too much in, like, intention setting around, sitting down and recording together feels like it's been a long time coming.

00;00;24;19 - 00;00;25;05 Nibras Definitely.

00;00;25;11 - 00;00;36;15 Elijah You know, just to, like, sit down and share this space with you and we just happen to happen like this. Yeah. Feel excited.

00;00;39;08 - 00;00;42;11 Elijah Feel like it's around to. Yeah. How do you feel?

00;00;44;08 - 00;00;50;29 Nibras I feel really good today. Today's been. Today has been one of those, like quite beautiful, close to perfect days.

00;00;51;01 - 00;00;51;17 Elijah Mhm.

00;00;51;24 - 00;01;16;09 Nibras Just, like, woke up, packed, arrived here. Hannah was dancing here. Several people dance through the day. You've been singing and playing the guitar all day long. Bit of work, a bit of movement. It's just felt very, very nice, very nourishing. Very much the right pace and energy level for me as well as I would feeling a lot of that today.

00;01;16;18 - 00;01;20;21 Nibras Just those moments of like I feel loved, I feel so good.

00;01;20;28 - 00;01;21;12 Elijah Mhm.

00;01;22;06 - 00;01;52;13 Nibras There's definitely feeling that. And then also within that container of feelings like the multiplicity of feelings, I feel always a little nervous historically when I recorded. And there's something in me that wants to find a way of having a conversation that's recorded, but someway, somehow forgetting that it's being recorded so that it feels honest, that level, that a one on one conversation does something like call you do it.

00;01;52;21 - 00;01;53;11 Elijah So does I.

00;01;53;11 - 00;02;06;23 Nibras Notice I'm always I'm always dancing with that. I'm like, okay, how can I let the part of my mind that's aware of this later on being watched or perceived by somebody else, kind of like going to be. Those are the things I feel alive.

00;02;07;07 - 00;02;33;18 Elijah Mhm. And do you do any tools or practices to do that come to mind? I think the most obvious one would be just to sit down and do it and do it over again and do it over again. But are there any practices that you employ in your life or in your day to day that that you use to so that when it comes to moments like this, you can drop a bit more into that natural space?

00;02;35;05 - 00;02;56;12 Nibras So two things. The first and the primary, one is actually talking. I think talking is a forgotten practice because we do it all the time. It's like breathing. Yeah, we forget just how powerful and useful it is. So there's something about me having an experience that feels internal and therefore separate and then vocalizing it and sharing it with you.

00;02;56;13 - 00;03;15;22 Nibras And now it exists in the space, and now it also exists in the space with anybody who watches this. And the second something's shared, at least for me, it's not this aspect that's slightly shaped. That part of my cognition is working to keep out of the picture. It's actually a lot of energy that's really a big part of the practice.

00;03;15;22 - 00;03;22;00 Nibras And the reason I'm saying it is that it's just here's the nervousness, here's my fear. Here are the things. But at least for me, I'm less likely to.

00;03;22;00 - 00;03;22;15 Elijah Talk about.

00;03;23;04 - 00;03;39;23 Nibras Springing the fourth one and then the other is breath. But that feels like a skill and like a craft that I'm still cultivating and learning, really learning all the different ways. The breakfast going to chew the body around me and make me feel more secure, more comfortable.

00;03;40;01 - 00;03;52;22 Elijah MM Yeah. So you said that's a skill that you're continuing to craft, that you led an incredible introductory like breathing for me the other day. I loved.

00;03;52;22 - 00;03;53;19 Nibras It. Thank you.

00;03;53;20 - 00;04;24;23 Elijah Yeah. You're like Wim Hof. Nah, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good on that fog that I was, you know, and I loved. I love that you brought to the table with that. And for me, breath is a tool for these moments and for these opportunities to just become more aligned to this present moment. You forget that the mikes here or I mean, we can't really forget that this is here, but just acknowledge that this is here but still be in our natural state.

00;04;24;23 - 00;04;28;05 Elijah Our natural flow is like it's powerful to do that.

00;04;28;17 - 00;04;33;11 Nibras Are there any other tools or practice these?

00;04;33;11 - 00;05;00;05 Elijah I think breath is the is the most common one, the go to one for me movement. I find that if I just move my body there and be do something and twist it. So just like energy movement practices, it just allows my body to settle here and now. But those are the only two that come to mind. I feel very fortunate that I have it.

00;05;00;12 - 00;05;06;15 Elijah I don't get I don't feel the the nerves or jitters around cameras and mikes.

00;05;06;15 - 00;05;07;04 Nibras I love that.

00;05;07;04 - 00;05;13;27 Elijah For. Yeah. Or stages like, like I just feel totally fine. Which Jeff feels very blessed.

00;05;13;28 - 00;05;17;02 Nibras It's incredible. Do you know what that comes from or the reason for that?

Mirrors of Self: Whose perception of us matters?

00;05;17;07 - 00;06;03;20 Elijah I'm over time. I think I've just stopped. I've gradually stopped giving a shit about what I what I was projecting that people were thinking about me and like the amount of fucks that I gave just gradually got less and less and, and I'm not saying that I'm at a point where I don't care what anybody thinks because I do care what people think of me, but I care what certain people think of me, you know, because I think it can be quite I think it can be unhealthy if you don't care what anybody thinks of you, because then you miss out on incredible opportunities for feedback and for growth.

00;06;04;06 - 00;06;32;00 Elijah And you don't acknowledge that other people can be mirrors for different aspects of one's self that you can see. But I think that my I just stopped caring about what people I don't know or are or I've stopped letting the fear of judgment impact how I feel. Even if people are going to think things or say things, I'm totally open to that.

00;06;32;00 - 00;06;36;08 Elijah But I think it's more just like I've stopped letting that impact me.

00;06;36;17 - 00;06;38;12 Nibras Beautiful. So i have two questions.

00;06;38;23 - 00;06;39;04 Elijah Yeah.

00;06;40;14 - 00;07;02;00 Nibras The first is what did that look like as a path? How did you go from what I think is a common experience for people, which is the judgment of others or the fear of others or just other-ship, has a lot of impact on them, on us, to a place where a lot of that drops for you. I'm very curious about that.

00;07;02;00 - 00;07;15;29 Nibras And then the second question is how do you pick whose opinions care about? Because I think there's something very beautiful there about this region. So whichever one of those you feel called to answer.

00;07;16;22 - 00;07;41;16 Elijah Yes. The second one, I think is a bit more straightforward for me to answer. I find that it's people that I have deep relationship with. I care about what they have to say, about what they think about me, because I often find that those can be the some of the most reflective in me or some of the clearest years.

00;07;42;03 - 00;08;05;07 Elijah You know, like for example, with with Cameron, if I didn't care what she thought, well, a, we wouldn't be together because I don't think she'd stick around that long, but also be I feel like I would have not had the opportunity to grow, to grow in the ways that I have based on the feedback and reflections that I received from her.

00;08;05;24 - 00;08;39;21 Elijah You know, I think one example that comes to mind is before being with her, I've never had anyone like call me defensive or call out defensive behaviors in my being or my tendencies. And if I just brushed off those times where she pointed that out in me, I would have never taken the time and space to dig within myself and explore that and come to like, come to the understanding that, Oh, wow, yes, that makes sense.

00;08;39;26 - 00;09;02;28 Elijah What you're saying makes total sense. Yeah. And you know, there's there's this ego that is being defensive in these scenarios. And I and who knows when or how or if I would have recognized that if someone if someone did not call that out about me and if I didn't if I wasn't in a space to to receive that and integrate that.

00;09;03;17 - 00;09;15;02 Elijah So I think it's people that I have a deep relationship with that that I deeply value the feedback and the reflections from people that I have a relationship with.

00;09;16;16 - 00;09;20;20 Nibras You also have more transparency between each other. They have more data.

00;09;21;11 - 00;09;22;18 Elijah Exactly.

00;09;22;18 - 00;09;26;03 Nibras More information, so it makes perfect sense that their feedback means more to you.

00;09;26;11 - 00;09;46;19 Elijah Yeah, exactly. Where is someone who I might not know? It's kind of like it's very easy to judge a book by its cover. You know, It's very easy to see one glimpse of somebody and say, Oh, this person's that or this person is this or this person is that. And it's like, you actually you're seeing me for like a little smidgen.

00;09;46;19 - 00;10;23;11 Elijah I don't know if you have enough data to to make these, like, conclusions about my being and my nature. Yeah. So, yeah, I think for that question, it's really the depth of relationship. And then before I get to the second question, I'm curious to know if you have a similar orientation towards how people perceive you. Yeah. And does that change based on your depth of relationship with people or is there equal weight placed on everyone's perception of you?

00;10;23;29 - 00;10;48;04 Nibras It's a great question. I feel like there are there are layers of subtlety and some of them I'm only coming to really uncover now and it's kind of like a layer that was always present that I was aware of or maybe like and I know like the sound of the cars around this, a kind of aware vaguely that there are cars, but I'm not really tuned into it.

00;10;48;04 - 00;11;08;27 Nibras But if I put my attention there, I'm like, Oh, oh, that's a truck. That sounds like a smaller car. There's a bit more detail. I kind of feel like this is happening with how I relate to others and how they perceive me in the judgment of others. Because I think I had this I started doing any kind of like personal development or self-help work when I was 14.

00;11;08;28 - 00;11;38;08 Nibras So like, that's really pretty much all of my life. And so I've had always these ideas and theories of, Oh, you know, I must be afraid of the judgment of others. And that must color and filter the way that I move through the world. I kind of understood it theoretically, but somehow in the last 2 to 3 months, I was experiencing it a lot more viscerally and really noticing like what in me reacts to the perceived judgments of others.

00;11;38;08 - 00;11;57;28 Nibras The different ways that I modulate outside of my own control, outside of my conscious control, based on who the people I'm around are and what I want from them in terms of judgment and like really becoming very aware of a program in me that optimizes for likability, like it seeps.

00;11;58;16 - 00;11;59;09 Elijah You and like.

00;11;59;23 - 00;12;26;23 Nibras I want to be like I when I feel like this flush of energy flows from a system, I feel alive. I feel like my best self. So clearly there's something in the programming that's running that wants likability from everybody. Of course, some people a lot more than others. But, you know, if somebody doesn't like me, I notice all of a sudden they have my attention, which is very interesting to become actually very aware of, to really be having an experience.

00;12;26;23 - 00;12;31;22 Nibras And also watching myself have the right Oh, you just tripped off the “I don't like you” program.

00;12;31;23 - 00;12;32;09 Elijah Right.

00;12;32;10 - 00;12;37;29 Nibras And now notice how much of your attention and energy is allocated to seeing how they perceive you.

00;12;38;06 - 00;12;38;22 Elijah Right.

00;12;38;22 - 00;12;54;11 Nibras So it's it's super fresh, especially after this retreat that I just came from where I really like was triggered in that this topic is very fresh in my life. So maybe a few weeks ago I would have said to you, well, you know, like consciously, I don't care too much what people think of me. I don't feel like I need to conform too much.

00;12;54;11 - 00;13;29;07 Nibras I can kind of be my own person and do what I feel. And a lot of people love to evolve it. But actually in the last two weeks I'm like the people who are in proximity to me, even if we don't have a depth of relationship. But if that depth is almost like the pixel density of our experience together, if we're spending two weeks, three weeks together, something we best care what they think of me and how they feel about me, and very specifically how much they like me, which really translates to am I loved. Do they love me or not.

00;13;29;07 - 00;13;32;01 Nibras Yeah, it feels nice to talk about because it is so alive right.

Internal like-ability programming, and how we self modulate

00;13;32;09 - 00;14;03;04 Elijah Yeah. And then that love ability or likability program. Do you find that that manifests in just in a field of awareness that you carry based on maybe someone not liking you? Or does that manifest in you altering your behaviors in efforts, whether consciously or or subconscious in efforts to get those people to like you? Does that make.

00;14;03;04 - 00;14;24;19 Nibras

Yeah, it makes a great question. I think it's a lot of awareness. I think there's something in me that's I feel very tuned into people and I think a big part of being tuned in, if I start to put a narrative around it, is probably fracking for emotional responses to whatever it means. Getting a sense of validation, from being like some love by others.

00;14;24;19 - 00;14;47;20 Nibras Right? And it's very kind of like tuned into their emotional simplicity. So I think a field of awareness is a really beautiful way of putting it in terms of how much I change to get a reaction from people. I think not too much, at least not consciously. What happens unconsciously? Yeah, it's the whole ball game, to be honest with you.

00;14;47;23 - 00;15;09;13 Nibras But at least in the conscious there seems to be. I think what's probably happened is a lot of my personality has been constructed around some kind of core, core desire, which is a need that wants to feel loved. Right. And so the personality doesn't have to change too much because I think it's built to get love-ability, to get likability right.

00;15;09;13 - 00;15;09;25 Elijah It's kind of.

00;15;10;13 - 00;15;22;06 Nibras Plugged into different situations and stay consistent. But yeah, I feel every every month I wake up to something like, Oh wow, I didn't realize that this game, I didn't see that this was all awful.

00;15;23;19 - 00;15;54;10 Elijah And I think that that's a very natural, almost primal thing. To feel right is to have this tendency towards wanting to be liked and wanting to be loved. Because I think that speaks directly to our our safety in groups and in community. Right? And like, if I'm like, I'm accepted. If I'm accepted, I can be part of a community or in relationship with others.

00;15;54;10 - 00;16;18;10 Elijah When I'm in a relationship with others, I'm not all stranded alone on this island. I actually have some some more set. Maybe there's a deeper sense of security when other people accept me, maybe. I don't know.

But I think what you're naming is like, I feel like there's a there's something primal about it. You know, something like maybe hardwired in our in our human design.

00;16;19;01 - 00;16;53;16 Nibras It’s a a reminder. It's a very good reminder for me what I what I care about when it comes to like, whatever is running or whatever program is running in the background is like it can run as long as that desire doesn't filter me from expressing whatever it wants to be expressed. whatever wants to move through life, and as long as that desire doesn't begin to follow my interactions with people and doesn't become grasping and seeking, because then relating to others is a slightly different thing.

00;16;53;16 - 00;17;08;29 Nibras It's always a it is primal and I agree with you. And it's also like, okay, how much of the external external externality in go for that around, make sure you drop. So then whatever feels primarily a little bit more, which is kind of like.

00;17;09;20 - 00;17;17;06 Elijah Yes, well the receiving that and I agree. And then the second question. Well, the first question you asked.

00;17;17;07 - 00;17;17;15 Nibras Great.

00;17;17;28 - 00;18;10;28 Elijah Which is now the second question, because we reversed it was around how how I managed to get to a point where on camera, on my on stage, not feeling nervous or not feeling whatever, anxiety, etc.. And I think it just comes from throwing myself into it, like leaning in and continuing to lean in. And there have been times there were m any times I was uncomfortable, but I just leaned into it and realized that, Oh, I'm going up in front of the class and doing a presentation or Oh, I'm going up with this open mic and just like playing this song or, Oh, I'm doing this thing and I did the thing and like, no one's

00;18;10;28 - 00;18;40;07 Elijah booing me. No one's like the worst case scenario, never panned out. Like, it just never panned out. And so I think just my program is writing new code, you know, because because these worst case scenarios, these fears that arose when it was an uncomfortable situation never played out. And then I think that program began to shift. And it's like, oh, this is chill.

00;18;40;07 - 00;18;50;21 Elijah Like no one's you know, no one's booing me, no one's coming up and saying, get out of here. And so I think it's just doing that enough times to where it shifted.

00;18;51;14 - 00;18;52;19 Nibras You know, what's going to matter.

00;18;52;20 - 00;19;07;17 Elijah Is Exactly, exactly, exactly. And had that not been the case, maybe it would have been totally different if people were throwing tomatoes at me or people were booing me every time I stood up in front of people. You know, I think it would have been a very different story.

00;19;07;17 - 00;19;17;07 Nibras I mean, even then, I think in my experience, like when the fear comes true, it never feels as bad and the experience of it all in reality as.

00;19;17;07 - 00;19;18;03 Elijah Yes.

00;19;18;07 - 00;19;19;08 Nibras Imagination.

00;19;19;08 - 00;19;20;01 Elijah Right.

00;19;20;01 - 00;19;20;28 Nibras And expectation.

00;19;20;28 - 00;19;22;00 Elijah Absolutely right.

00;19;22;01 - 00;19;39;01 Nibras So even if people did boo you like, my experience with this stuff’s been like, Oh, the thing that really scared us happened is so much about it. Well, yeah, right. Okay. I feel a bit freed now that I have more room to move now. So even that I think you would have had to say.

00;19;39;04 - 00;19;49;00 Elijah Yeah. How are you feeling after we're like now ten, 15 minutes in versus the beginning to now has a feeling has it flowing for.

00;19;49;00 - 00;20;11;03 Nibras You much more comfortable, much more comfortable. I'm still not fully natural. I'm still more self-conscious than I would be normally. I'm aware of that because it means I it's almost like I have more conscious control and awareness of certain muscles in my body. Usually, I don't know if you ever get that sort of like I have conscious control of this muscle right now.

00;20;11;03 - 00;20;20;18 Nibras Like something else should be taking care of this. But overall, I feel a lot more, yeah, a lot more. Just like, settled and grounded and now easier. Very easy to talk to.

00;20;20;18 - 00;20;22;22 Elijah So yeah, you too. As are you two.

00;20;23;04 - 00;20;23;26 Nibras How are you feeling?

00;20;24;05 - 00;20;52;07 Elijah Yeah, I feel great. And even then you saying that I'm realizing that for me, I can't say for certain that if this Mike wasn't here and if that camera wasn't on that we'd be having this same exact conversation word for word. Yeah. I can't say that for certain. You know, I could. I think that we'd probably touch on similar topics and maybe have a similar flow, but would I be using these words in this way and articulating this idea?

00;20;52;17 - 00;21;01;28 Elijah I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. So now I'm questioning. I'm like, how natural, how natural am I right now?

00;21;03;16 - 00;21;08;02 Nibras I've yeah.

00;21;08;02 - 00;21;27;27 Elijah But it feels I feel very calm in my body, like I don't feel any nerves or any society because of cameras or mikes. Yeah, but this conversation does have me thinking like, would this conversation be exactly the same if you removed all this equipment? Right? Maybe.

00;21;28;08 - 00;21;41;19 Nibras And even you saying it, like, for me then begins to beg the question of does it matter? Hmm. Something about you just framing that, framing it that way, right? Like, would it be the same? Would it be word for word and a like and so what if it was.

00;21;41;19 - 00;21;46;08 Elijah Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great question. Right. So what? And so.

00;21;46;19 - 00;21;47;16 Nibras Honest and if it's.

00;21;47;22 - 00;21;48;05 Elijah True.

00;21;48;13 - 00;21;49;16 Nibras Yeah but I.

00;21;49;26 - 00;21;59;17 Elijah Totally yeah it's it's it's coming from the same place, you know maybe the manifestation is a little bit different or the word whatever. Right.

How do you feel in your body as you create?

00;22;00;22 - 00;22;19;16 Nibras You said right there you were like it feels calm in my body and I feel like we've been joking about with that phrase, but term almost as a as a mantra in some sense of like, does this feel good in your body? Yeah. And with that is this how is it feeling in your. It's okay. You can you can continue ahead with it.

00;22;20;07 - 00;22;33;02 Nibras There's been repeating in my head for a while as well and it's nice to it's nice to hear somebody articulate it like, oh cool. Other people are doing this to other people like, wait, let me pause. Yeah. Okay. We can go ahead.

00;22;33;02 - 00;22;58;28 Elijah Yeah. Yeah. I think the body the body really knows. Yeah. And I don't think I know like, I know, the body knows. I'm just rephrasing my sentence. That is like I think the body knows, but I know the body knows. And the mind and the brain, I think has tendencies to overthink very easily and project and all these things that we can do with our minds.

00;22;58;28 - 00;23;32;12 Elijah But the body has the body, I don't know, like just how I feel in my body says a lot about where I'm at in social situations and creative situations talking about rituals and what that looks like. So yeah, which I would love to chat a bit about rituals and creative rituals. And so I think this is all connected in terms of the types of rituals that we've been talking about and that have been alive.

00;23;32;12 - 00;24;05;13 Elijah For me, it really comes down to how does one feel when they are in a space of creativity and creation, right? And and a lot of the modern modalities of work or of creation, I don't think place enough focus on that aspect of how does the creator feel when creating in their body and like, how do they feel in their body.

00;24;06;19 - 00;24;59;14 Elijah And then these rituals for me are the tools to allow people to to feel at home in their body. And I'm very curious to explore what happens when a team of creators is creating from the home together. And I'm curious, as someone who's went to art school and has explored creativity from a lot of different angles, a lot of different art forms, are there any rituals or practices for tuning in that you've seen that you've found to be inspiring examples of what we're talking about?

00;25;00;27 - 00;25;37;22 Nibras Also beautiful context, by the way. MM Beautiful context setting. So I want to add to it. We're having we were talking earlier about, yeah, the idea of beginning to shift our focus from what's being made in the things that we create to how we create those things. And almost playing with this hypothesis that if you focus the entirety of your attention radically just on how you create, how you feel in your body as you're making the states that you're in, that would entirely alter how, we’s imagine, and in much better ways what the creation is.

00;25;38;04 - 00;26;04;06 Nibras And you could even just no concern as to the contents, the objects that just focus on that state and cultivating that space. And it's been a very, very fun idea to toy and play with what I'll say. And I feel like there are a couple of and I wonder if you have this as well.

Creating without suffering: rituals for coming home to the body

There are a couple of questions that I kind of got out of my life for I've been very obsessed with, and one of them's always been, How can artists create without suffering?

00;26;04;14 - 00;26;29;11 Nibras Because I think there is this trope of the artist who suffers when the creative suffers. And without suffering, you don't have creativity. And for me, it was very clear from early on, like I have to make I am driven to make I will always make if I don't make a miserable. But the issues when I make I'm also miserable

So I was like, hold up, hold up hold up hold up hold up

00;26;30;12 - 00;26;57;02 Nibras You’re telling me I have to live this entire, you know. And so I started I started just like obsessively digging into this. And then I read like the diaries of artists and like Tolstoy Journal entry entries and just everybody who wrote about their practice. Because what I was trying to get is like, is any creator enjoying the process of creation. Does anybody feel good in the moment as they make?

00;26;57;16 - 00;27;16;00 Nibras And the answer kept coming back, No, no, no. Suffering is the price that you pay for the creation that comes at the end and you get your your reward when you have this artifact. And and there's something about that just didn't sit right with me. So I was like, I don't think so. Like that there has to be a way and it's like, this is how I spend my life.

00;27;16;00 - 00;27;50;12 Nibras And that kind of feels like a life. Well, well, well, well lived, actually, just figuring out this question. And so to then bring all of that back to your question of are there are rituals or processes that I've seen, I think there are a lot and artists have all sorts of like insane rituals, you know, it's like, okay, it's it's almost like a like a phone lock pattern that sometimes do have, you know, like drink this exact same amount of coffee, roll around the floor, walk outside, stand on the balcony, turn around, like people do very crazy things.

00;27;50;29 - 00;28;17;04 Nibras But I think this question of how do I feel good in my body? Yeah, how do I come from a place that feels like home? I really haven't seen very many artists ask. And I haven't seen too many people explore. I feel like people are only beginning to explore it very recently.

And you have, you know, you have like Agnes Martin or you have painters and and crafts people who were a lot more spiritual leaning.

00;28;17;23 - 00;28;44;18 Nibras And so we do do these very mindful, you know, paintings or pieces of art or maybe, you know, Agnes would like draw a single line for hours and then it really does matter what you feel like in your body. And it really is about tuning into the subtleties in the subtle energies running through the feels. A very, very it's so giving you a lot there to say, I haven't really seen too many.

00;28;44;18 - 00;29;02;01 Nibras I'm trying to explore them myself. And that's a question that feels very alive for me. Yeah. And I feel like we saw an example like really beautifully earlier today because everybody was doing it where, you know, somebody would sit down to work on their laptop and then they'd like get up and dance, yeah, five, 10 minutes and energy would move.

00;29;02;13 - 00;29;19;15 Nibras Then they'd sit down again and they'd work a bit and then okay again. So for me to dance's attention, yeah, the body. But yeah, same question. Back to you. What have you seen in terms of practices, rituals from others? Also, what have you been exploring yourself that makes you feel like you're at home? Your body?

00;29;20;03 - 00;29;53;28 Elijah Yeah. So on that first, now I'm in the same camp as you. I haven't seen too many. At least in my field of awareness. I haven't seen too many. Uh, practices, like too many tuning in practices or tuning practices that are done with the intention of bringing creative that the the, the most common attunement and practices I see and that I'm inspired by have no connection to creativity.

00;29;54;20 - 00;30;23;06 Elijah And this is the bridge that I'm very interested in exploring. You know, like what comes to mind when I think of attunement in terms of modern example is like Jai Dev Singh, who we just did a class with at Envision. And all of his work and all of the work around Kundalini is yes awakening this Kundalini energy with him, but it's really about the tuning our divine instrument.

00;30;23;06 - 00;30;48;10 Elijah But there's no focus there on, on the then what? You know, there's no focus there on how do we create from that place. And so I haven't seen too many practices that from creators or creatives or professionals in our field that are linking these two things up. So I can't really no references are coming to mind for me.

00;30;48;17 - 00;30;55;18 Elijah Yeah, but what does come to mind are athletes.

00;30;56;27 - 00;30;58;18 Nibras Athletes intriguing. Okay.

00;30;58;19 - 00;31;28;00 Elijah Yes. Because in sports and in athletics, there's this concept of warming up. Yeah. Before you play the game, you know, and that makes sense to me. It's like stretch the body, open the channels, like stretch the body so that you don't cramp up. And I get just like you know, do some like get the layup line going, like feel what it feels like to get the ball going in the basket and have your team huddle.

00;31;28;00 - 00;31;57;17 Elijah And there's a lot of ritual before going into the game and I just don't see that same 1-2 with with creation or with design or with products or like and these forms of creation that you and I are usually tapping into. Yeah, but that's a reference that comes to me in terms of tune in, perform yet, you know, like sports seems like the, the example that's coming alive for me.

00;31;57;17 - 00;32;15;16 Nibras But yeah so the question of as I said earlier, a bunch of questions First you said when you see people, when you see tuning in practices, it's never related to creation and it was the example of, you know, Kundalini. What other examples of the two main practices do you have? What do you see?

00;32;15;21 - 00;32;47;21 Elijah MM Yeah. So what comes to mind is there's a distinction between attunement like self attunement practices and partner attunement like disease. So partner attunement, what comes to mind is Reiki, and that is, that is the literal like a tuning of our, of our energy field from another person. Or you can do you can do self reiki as well but that's in me to minute practice.

00;32;47;21 - 00;33;18;01 Elijah I think music is a deep attunement practice. Practice. Yeah. Like especially when one is singing from their core because a lot of people sing from their heads and there's different energy centers where we can project the voice from in our core voice actually comes from here. It doesn't come from here. Yeah. And a lot of people, when they sing like my sound like this instead of like this kind of that, you know, I feel that in here.

00;33;18;06 - 00;33;54;18 Elijah Yeah. And so I think when you're activating your voice and that way music is such a powerful attitude practice, whether it's playing music, vocal music, chanting, jazz, utilizing the voice, activating that movement. Yes. Dance, you know, like we don't even need to get all, like, spiritual out here and be like, Kundalini and Reiki, like, just practical stuff, like stretch your body, you know, like you stretch your body, move like, move your body.

00;33;54;19 - 00;33;55;18 Nibras Make a nice.

00;33;55;19 - 00;33;56;29 Elijah Yeah make of it noise.

00;33;56;29 - 00;34;01;24 Nibras Make weird random thing like a release that tension or something.

00;34;01;24 - 00;34;03;21 Elijah Exactly. Yeah.

00;34;04;07 - 00;34;23;03

Holistic attunement practices for working as a collective

Nibras And then if we take that and we take what you were talking about, which is athletes in sports idea of warming up. Ooh what, kind of warm up. What kind of warm ups can you have for creation and for creative practices? So we kind of have our, like attunement ingredients, right? And we kind of have the example of the athlete.

00;34;23;04 - 00;34;53;00 Nibras MM Yeah, I'd love to just brainstorm what could we be doing. Could a warm up before making, could a warm up before writing or before designing actually look like humming out running shoes to yourself and just like feeling into where that sounds coming from and feeling into that sense? Like, I definitely have it in my body and I'm sure you do as well as the sound feels deep and grounded and true versus no, it doesn't quite feel like it's spare or feeling.

00;34;53;01 - 00;34;55;27 Nibras I'm trying to orchestrate something here, you know what I mean?

00;34;55;27 - 00;34;56;11 Elijah Yeah.

00;34;56;19 - 00;35;00;08 Nibras Yeah. So I'd love to hear what what kind of warm ups look like.

00;35;00;08 - 00;35;03;27 Elijah Yeah, totally. And a precursor to my answer.

00;35;03;27 - 00;35;04;15 Nibras To go ahead.

00;35;04;15 - 00;35;26;07 Elijah So I think athletes in sports are a great example of warm up performance. I would want to move beyond warm up and performance - interesting - and have it be a more integrated approach ~~~~So it's not like, Oh, let's come together, let's stretch and then let's do some work. But what's that?

00;35;26;07 - 00;35;53;22 Elijah What's the whole process look like? What's the space we’re in, What's the environment we're in, what's the energy were in whilst in the creation process. So like today, right? It's like we're on the computer, then we go dance, we go sing, we go to stretch cams doing muay thai is like, and we're just and then we're back and then we're like in it and we're getting this information, bringing it back, and it's more of like an integrated process as opposed to, All right, let's do our thing.

00;35;53;22 - 00;35;56;00 Elijah And now we're just we're just in the box.

00;35;56;01 - 00;35;59;00 Nibras Gotcha.

00;35;59;00 - 00;36;29;20 Elijah So maybe I'll answer the question and in both of those ways, warm up as well as integrated. I think a great example of warm up in creation spaces that I've seen was what we did the other day where you let us in in a in breathing practice together, the three of us around the table and something that probably a total of three or 4 minutes I found to be incredibly powerful.

00;36;30;06 - 00;36;57;12 Elijah And I think what it allowed us to do is, is be way more present in the space and be more attuned to one another's energy in the space. Is something as simple as that, right? Just just guiding us through, breathing into our bodies and releasing and breathing and releasing. So I would say that even something as simple as that is, is powerful.

00;36;57;12 - 00;37;34;29 Elijah Also, another thing that comes to me is mantra like the use of mantra, which is a technology. You know, it's an ancient technology of utilizing just the power of encoding because that's really what mantra is encoding these, these prayers and blessings and words and these affirmations and encoding those. And what happens when we encourage those together? Yeah, I'm also thinking of what what happens if we are listening to the same things?

00;37;35;07 - 00;38;00;22 Elijah Mm is what is it like getting very practical, right? If we're all sitting around the table, we all have AirPods on. Would the outcome of something be different or would the experience of doing the thing be different in some way if we're simply all tuning into the same playlist right. So those are some of the things that come to mind, and there's a bunch of other things I can.

00;38;01;01 - 00;38;07;07 Elijah Yeah, so off, but just to give some like direction or pathways to explore.

00;38;07;08 - 00;38;38;07 Nibras Yeah, I like it a lot. Especially I think music. Yeah, especially music. Music, Especially live music. If there was some. Yeah. Even like noticing what it's been like. I mean I love the acoustic guitar. It is really just my favorite instrument and noticing what it's like to have you playing the guitar throughout the day, I'm noticing, okay, I'm if I'm starting to get heavy or maybe I'm starting to get stressed, I can just drop everything and I can listen to the sounds that are being created in real time.

00;38;38;20 - 00;38;59;02 Nibras Like you just kind of tune into the music and it feels like treating my body some way somehow and I can move back to the work that I'm doing from that state. That's very different. It's a very different relationship to the work.

So what does it look like if we have music that's either being created or that we've all agreed on and we are tuning ourselves to the same frequency?

00;38;59;02 - 00;39;26;03 Nibras Yes, tuning ourselves to the same state? Yeah, hopefully that's a state that's conducive to whatever it is that we want. There's a lot of you doing that now. There. Anything as well that comes up for me is checking is like getting to this like practical, simple, right? Like for saying moving lik

what does it actually looks like 45 minutes into making something, you know, I turn around to you and I say, Hey, how are you feeling right now?

00;39;26;03 - 00;39;49;08 Nibras Like for a minute, how you feeling? Your body? And you tell me. And just in you expressing that like that, very the very tangible sense of what do I want to say? Like almost becoming more embodied but becoming more embodied socially, right? The sense bouncing off each other. Is this something that just feels very human and really accessible?

00;39;49;13 - 00;40;19;22 Nibras Right. Right. But I think I I'm amazed or surprised sometimes by how powerful it's just coming back again and again. We don't do it very often. We can do it kind of formally of like, okay, let's check in time. We could over like know what it looks like to check in moment to moment moments for others and what happens when many people checking together So they're choosing into each other states all of a sudden it's sort of coming back into the bodies of self, right?

00;40;19;27 - 00;40;28;22 Nibras But then we expand that bubble. I'm aware that Elijah is like this in a way that can there's like this. I'm aware that this is a life for Nick. And what does that create as well?

00;40;29;10 - 00;41;02;22 Elijah Yeah, and I think this is also what comes up for me when you share that is just the power of being in person together because I've gotten so used to, Oh, let's set up a Zoom call for next week or let's do a biweekly Zoom call and we'll check in every two weeks. But if we're actually in this collaboration and co-creation, I would imagine that there would be other other aspects and other areas explored and other yoga mats pulled up and looked under.

00;41;03;15 - 00;41;24;19 Elijah If if we're actually sitting here and checking in more regularly. Yeah. As opposed to, oh I'll, I'll let the check in on Slack and then I'll hit you up again in two weeks and we could chat on Zoom. Yeah. And also it's coming up for me in this whole conversation, not that this is something that I necessarily want to do, but it's just an idea that's coming up.

Divine Creation: the artist as vessel vs owner

00;41;26;01 - 00;42;04;13 Elijah You know, I'd imagine no one's ever done any studies on this. And I'm not saying I want to do a study out, but this these are hypotheses that I'm very keen on testing and exploring. If you take similar groups. Right. And I don't know how you would define similar, but no need to think about that right now. But let's say hypothetically, a group of eight people, six people, not four people, four people co-creating some collective art piece, and you have one group that is in person doing these tuning in practices and various ways.

00;42;04;13 - 00;42;26;20 Elijah You have another group that is doing biweekly check ins, the normal zoom stuff that we've normalized and what the difference in output would be. You know, and running those studies over and over again. And see, I feel like we'd probably get to some tangible understanding that my hypothesis is this way is better, is more fruitful.

00;42;26;21 - 00;42;27;00 Nibras Yeah.

00;42;27;11 - 00;42;47;08 Elijah The experience of the people I think is going to be better, definitely. And maybe the output of the material is going to be who judges what's better? You know, I guess that's a tricky thing with art. And I think with all of this, the one word that the one phrase that has been coming to me is divine creation.

00;42;48;03 - 00;43;23;18 Elijah And how do we birth divine creations? And what that means for me is if we understand our bodies in our vessels as a divine instrument and these practices, our attunement practices, to tune our instrument right, What really what what we're doing is opening our channels to receive from from these different energies that we're in constant communication with. But sometimes we're more sensitive to it or not sensitive to it, a conscious of it, now conscious to open to it or not open to it.

00;43;23;23 - 00;43;32;00 Elijah Yeah. And when we're more intentional about opening ourselves up to it and like what comes through. Yeah, yeah.

00;43;32;20 - 00;43;53;24 Nibras So I think one of the there is a lot that I could say from this, but like one of I think the big drops of suffering that you can make as a creator, it's shifting from a place of having ownership over your creations. This is a thing that I is an extension of my sense of self. MM This is something that's moving through me, Yes.

00;43;53;29 - 00;44;19;25 Nibras And the second you get to thinking of yourself as a vessel, the entire creation relationship just drops so much weight and there's so much more openness. So I love I love to hear you say that because it felt it felt like a really big fundamental shift in my life and one that I have to keep trying to slide back into so easy, especially when, you know, if I make something good that I'm like, Yeah, you know, But that one was those others.

00;44;19;25 - 00;44;52;08 Nibras Not so much like this one. That's yeah, right. In the sense of thinking of the body and the self as a vessel, especially your body as a vessel. It's even such a beautiful relationship to self because then it kind of expands. Actually, I start thinking about the way that I eat and the way that I move and the way that I move also is a form of exercise as a a means to an end and being a better self, but also is creating a landing strip for these planes of creation that move straight forward.

00;44;52;08 - 00;44;52;29 Elijah Yes.

00;44;52;29 - 00;44;54;22 Nibras Create the perfect ground for them.

00;44;54;22 - 00;44;55;06 Elijah Yeah.

00;44;55;06 - 00;45;19;29 Nibras And it's just a really it's quite a wonderful way of moving through the world. And it's slight shift, but it makes quite a big difference. E I'm a really, really big fan of hearing that and there is a, there's a story that I heard. I think it was Elizabeth Gilbert who did a TED Talk, who was shared by a guy there is like on Twitter, called me, said that I watched a bunch of years ago.

00;45;20;16 - 00;45;46;18 Nibras And in it she tells a story of a poet who's out working in the field and the poet looks up to the sky and towards the horizon, and she sees a poem coming towards her. She's like, Oh shit. But I dropped my tools and run into the house because if I don't have a pencil and a piece of paper, as this poem moves through my body, it will move on to the next person who's open in writing.

00;45;46;24 - 00;46;07;16 Nibras Yeah, and it won't transfer. And so she starts running towards the house. And I remember the stories always stuck with me because I think it was one of the first kind of steps of you can relate to creativity in that way. You can really return to this original idea of having the muse move for you, which is the way that we've dealt with art for the majority of history.

00;46;07;27 - 00;46;20;09 Nibras We have just been channels for the muse and you can really say, okay, what's what's going on? What's going on? What's one of the most? So you can tell by my energy level to that idea that I find very exciting as well.

00;46;20;09 - 00;46;35;18 Elijah Totally. Yeah. I'm I'm like, right here with you. And I think when you when you shift when you reframe the understanding of you as the creator versus you as the vessel.

00;46;35;20 - 00;46;36;02 Nibras Yeah.

00;46;37;07 - 00;47;05;05 Elijah Or you as the I guess in either case, you're kind of a tangible creator, but let's just say that distinction for now, creative versus vessel brings reframe to see yourself as a vessel. I think all of these things that can be woo woo to a lot of people become very practical. Yes, maybe even obvious. Like if I am a vessel, a vessel for a what?

00;47;05;05 - 00;47;32;03 Elijah Well, for the purposes of this conversation, maybe let's just call it divine energy to funnel through. Right? So if I'm a vessel for the divine, then all of these practices become very practical, maybe even obvious, that if I am an instrument and a vessel to receive this, then wow, there are these time tested practices that will allow me to become more open to receiving these creations.

00;47;32;03 - 00;47;32;16 Elijah Yeah.

00;47;33;00 - 00;47;55;08 Nibras And if you're tuned in, it's it's a very easy frame to fall into because if you're tuning in, you're making you have this relationship to ideas where, you know, if you're like the rest of us, like you'll be, you know, going for a walk, an idea will just like incessantly start beating. It gets me right and you'll be eating breakfast and it'll be there.

00;47;55;08 - 00;48;19;00 Nibras Yes. It kind of becomes clear of like I'm I don't choose when these ideas come. I actually don't even choose what ideas whether we're just like, hey, you want to you want to try it on me or dance me. And it's like, okay, either I have the skill or the energy or the capability, or sometimes even just the freedom of expression to be able to allow it to move or I don't.

00;48;19;11 - 00;48;37;11 Nibras But either way, they'll be visitors and ideas will always be so to yeah, to bring it to a place of practicality. And for the people who are like me, allergic. Yeah. So that frame of looking at it where you can just check in with your own experience, what is my relationship to ideas like, Yeah.

00;48;37;27 - 00;48;46;29 Elijah Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I feel energized by this conversation too. And I'm also noticing it's getting quite dark.

00;48;47;22 - 00;48;48;05 Nibras I think we're.

00;48;48;05 - 00;48;48;24 Elijah Definitely. Yeah.

00;48;50;03 - 00;48;55;03 Nibras I like I'm noticing it's dark here where the mosquitoes are going to be hungry.

00;48;55;12 - 00;48;59;18 Elijah Yes. Yeah. The hungry mosquitoes are going to be coming in any moment now.

00;48;59;25 - 00;49;04;02 Nibras I'm like preemptively scratched because I'm like, I'm taste. It's good. I know. It's.

00;49;04;29 - 00;49;09;12 Elijah Well, yeah. Thank you for this opportunity. I'm looking forward to more of this. This is great.

00;49;09;26 - 00;49;14;20 Nibras Thank you. It's always, always. Well, yeah, it's fun. Fun to be recording together.

00;49;14;23 - 00;49;15;11 Elijah Yeah.

00;49;15;20 - 00;49;17;14 Nibras Yeah. Beautiful. Two years ago. Yeah.

00;49;17;23 - 00;49;25;25 Elijah Yes. Well, thank you, Nibras. All right.