Rocket scientist Ben Haldeman is on a mission to create a blueprint of life on Earth (from sacred plants to animal and human DNA) and send it out into the universe.
In conversation with Nick, Ben introduces his astronomical venture LifeShip, the Noah’s Ark of the new space age, that has already sent the genomes of 500 species into the cosmos.
The intention? To back up Earth and spread life to the stars. The dream? To populate new worlds with these seeds of earthly life, consciousness and culture.
Tune in as Nick and Ben uncover the magnitude of this mission, and the giant leap of expansive opportunity and existential inquiry that LifeShip is launching humanity into.
Ben Haldeman
Ben is a space entrepreneur involved in companies at the intersection of space, longevity, biology, and consciousness. He is founder of LifeShip, a community space movement with a mission to spread the seeds of life to the stars. LifeShip’s first mission is a DNA seed bank time capsule on the Moon. LifeShip’s products allow people to preserve and propagate their DNA, story, and digital twin avatar across space and time. Ben was an early engineer at Planet Labs where he designed the camera used on hundreds of satellites to record our changing planet. He built a global network of dozens of robotic telescopes to find new exoplanets at LCOGT. In grad school at UC Berkeley, Ben built instruments to look for life on Mars.
https://www.lifeship.com/
https://www.instagram.com/lifeship/
https://www.instagram.com/benlifeship
Show notes:
Thanks for listening! Follow us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok or find us on LinkedIn! Join the ModernMantra.co mailing list here.
Rocket scientist Ben Haldeman is on a mission to create a blueprint of life on Earth (from sacred plants to animal and human DNA) and send it out into the universe.
In conversation with Nick, Ben introduces his astronomical venture LifeShip, the Noah’s Ark of the new space age, that has already sent the genomes of 500 species into the cosmos.
The intention? To back up Earth and spread life to the stars. The dream? To populate new worlds with these seeds of earthly life, consciousness and culture.
Tune in as Nick and Ben uncover the magnitude of this mission, and the giant leap of expansive opportunity and existential inquiry that LifeShip is launching humanity into.
Ben Haldeman
Ben is a space entrepreneur involved in companies at the intersection of space, longevity, biology, and consciousness. He is founder of LifeShip, a community space movement with a mission to spread the seeds of life to the stars. LifeShip’s first mission is a DNA seed bank time capsule on the Moon. LifeShip’s products allow people to preserve and propagate their DNA, story, and digital twin avatar across space and time. Ben was an early engineer at Planet Labs where he designed the camera used on hundreds of satellites to record our changing planet. He built a global network of dozens of robotic telescopes to find new exoplanets at LCOGT. In grad school at UC Berkeley, Ben built instruments to look for life on Mars.
https://www.lifeship.com/
https://www.instagram.com/lifeship/
https://www.instagram.com/benlifeship
Show notes:
Thanks for listening! Follow us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok or find us on LinkedIn! Join the ModernMantra.co mailing list here.
Nick: Yo, Ben, welcome
Ben: brother. Hey, Nick, great to see
Nick: you. You too, brother. Um, I deeply appreciate you hopping on with us today. Um, I would love, uh, for us to first share, uh, how we met. Um, I know you're down in Costa Rica. We're at this amazing place called flora straw and, uh, you were on a certain journey down there, correct me
Ben: if I'm wrong.
Ben: I was, I had been down for envision festival. So a week of expansive music and dancing and, uh, lots of energy. And then I spent a week up in diamante Valley and some of that at floor straw. And that was much more of an inner slow journey in the rain forest. And, um, Yeah, beautiful, beautiful inner journey and lots of, lots of grounding and sinking in and expansion during that time.
Ben: Yeah.
Nick: And, um, just for those who don't know, Flora straw is a community down in Costa Rica where Elijah, who's also on this call, um, owns some land, uh, who are building out a community centered around plant medicine. Inward journey and, um, doing different retreats and different activations in that realm. Um, were you part of any of the retreats down there when I, when
Ben: I met you?
Ben: I did. I had just come off of a, uh, two day deep dive all night ceremonies and. They were beautiful. And yeah, some of the best ceremonies I've ever done.
Nick: Yeah. And you know, that's one of the reasons why we really wanted to talk to you, uh, having discovery and entrepreneurs coming into their full power, embracing ceremony and all these ancient practices and integrating that into their journey is something that, uh, we.
Nick: Are very excited about. Um, Elijah is also doing his, um, plant medicine assistant program at floor straw. Forgive me if I'm misrepresenting that, but, um, you know, You shared with us that this company that you're building actually came from a vision, a vision you had during one of these ceremonies. I was wondering if, um, you might be open to sharing that with us and, uh, some of the contexts which, uh, this vision came out of.
Ben: Yeah. So, uh, four years ago I was in, uh, in, uh, Guatemala and I went to a ayahuasca ceremony and then. Did San Pedro the next day, which is another plant medicine. And I went on this long walk in the forest by myself and I meditated under this big, like grandmother tree of the forest, this beautiful tree that was just covered with life and all sorts of plants and mushrooms and stuff growing off this tree, um, a whole ecosystem in itself and.
Ben: Meditated there and I, I, I got the transmission of the story of life evolving on earth. So life evolving from single cells to, uh, to fill out the ocean and come on land and go deep in the ocean and come up into the air and, uh, even drifting all the way up into the atmosphere. And. And that it was all happening with intelligence and purpose and that the earth, the earth wanted to fill out every niche, but then also wanted to expand.
Ben: And, and really that's the ultimate goal for the earth is to, is to continue beyond whenever the sun will go out and to ripple life across the galaxy. And, um, and so I saw the earth grew humans and gave us all the. The food we need, the medicines to survive, the plant medicines to raise our consciousness and, um, and really that everything's unfolding exactly how it's supposed to and that we're part of nature and nature wants to expand and reproduce and just like a dandelions.
Ben: Purpose is to grow up and create the seeds and let the seeds blow away in the wind. That's like the biggest thing the earth wants to do is to continue life and continue consciousness across, uh, across the galaxy and across the universe. And, um, and so, yeah, through that, it became very clear that day. Oh, I'm here to create the seeds of earth to send the seeds to the stars.
Ben: And, um, my background had all been in space and I've worked on hundreds of satellites that have gone to space and built big telescopes to find other planets that could one day have. Have life. So this all just like, like clicked into place and was like, this is why I'm here is I'm I'm everything's led to this moment.
Ben: And I'm here to create the seeds and send the seeds to the stars. And, uh, and so started a company life ship. And that's our mission is to both do this to preserve earth and save a copy of earth. Um, And save a copy of all of our precious species so that future generations have a, have a copy. Um, but then also create the seeds to send to the stars.
Ben: And then, uh, part of the way we've done this is with a product for people to add their DNA and their life story and their purpose in, into these, uh, these seed capsules that we send to space. And we've already, we sent two to space last year. We're on a rocket to the moon really soon and, uh, working on a bunch more space missions.
Nick: Yeah. And just meeting you and hearing about this mission is literally expanded my scope of what's even possible on earth, taking something of earth, like creating these partnerships and you have them with all the different space agencies and like literally sending me. Human genome into space. And I think that's just the coolest thing I've heard of happening in a while, which is why I wanted to talk to you.
Nick: And, um, you know, with this mission of, um, send ourselves to space, I would just love to know, you know, how do you feel like this reinforces our understanding as human beings of legacy, immortality, and, you know, really, Human, the human existence journey as we go into other planets and into
Ben: the realms of space.
00:06:33
Ben: Yeah, there's, you know, there, there is a, there's a part of us seeing ourselves as part of humanity and humanity as part of earth. And what is humanity's legacy on earth and what is humanity's legacy in the universe and what. What will Earth's legacy be in the universe? And, you know, there's a couple of paths, like either we could be here for a blip of time in the universe and then, and then disappear.
Ben: Like the earth could be here for a blip of time and a billion years from now, the sun get too hot and we become like Mars and can't sustain life here anymore. Um, Or we could have the legacy of, oh, humanity is the one who, who rippled life across the galaxy and that this all started back on a planet Earth.
00:07:27
Ben: And now there's, there's life all over the place. And, um, and so, yeah, in the grand scheme, it's, it's whether humanity has a lasting. and impact on, on the universe. Um, and then for each one of us, it's like, I, I'm,
00:07:33
I know that each one of us is here with a purpose and that the universe is unfolding as it's supposed to, and we're part of nature and, and each one of us has, um, yeah, has our purpose and our story and who we are.
Ben: And so part of what I want. Uh, do with life ship is, is it helps people put intention into their life and their story and their legacy. And, um, and it can be a moment kind of like a plant medicine ceremony is where you, you step back and you're like, okay, who am I and what's going on here and where.
Ben: What's meant to come through and, um, and similar want this to be a, okay, what intention do you want to send out there into the universe of who you are and what you want to be remembered for? And, and that, that can be a ceremony. That can be a impactful event in your life for when then you look up to the stars, the rest of your life, and you've sent out there your biggest intentions for your life and your dreams and your purpose.
Ben: Um, so yeah, I feel like it, it. Ties that together on a big purpose in the universe down to a purpose of an individual.
Nick: Beautiful. And right now, correct me if I'm wrong, you've taken people's. Human DNA, the genomes, collecting that into this very small capsule, um, and putting that and sending it into space.
Nick: Um, you know, what other things have you experimented with sending through those capsules? And also, what other? Elements. Would you be interested in sending out into space in the future? You talked about intention, kicked around the idea of like a modern Noah's Ark. You know, what other things would, if you had several of these capsules, could send them out today?
Nick: What are some other things you'd be sending
Ben: out to the cosmos? Yeah, we, these are, these are meant to have. Represent all different species from earth and the ones we've sent up there. So far, we've put 500 different species. We've focused initially on plants because plants are a big part of our food supply and you kind of need plants before animals.
Ben: And, um. And so we've done, yeah, we've done a good, solid collection of, of all different important food crops from around the world. And then also plants that are beautiful flowers. And then also sacred plant medicines and some of the plants that are, uh, that are, that have been relied on for. By the indigenous and have been viewed as some of our, uh, some of the most sacred plants.
Ben: And so we've put some, some of those in the capsule and then, uh, and then we have a data archive with, with. With a cultural record of humanity and, uh, a whole library of photos and a whole, whole collection of, of art in it and music. And, um, so really it's meant to be a cultural record, a seed bank collection of earth.
Ben: And then. And then we're working on other parts there. We're working on adding, adding some foods, some like chocolate, some, uh, some wine, some other like tastes of humanity. Um, and then even, even sounds of animals. And so really wanted to increasingly grow as a, as a record.
Nick: In the event, let's say, hypothetically, an alien species did stumble upon these artifacts.
Nick: What do you feel like would be, you know, the intention behind it? Like, I suppose, like, humanity gets wiped out, God forbid, and, you know, these artifacts are stumbled upon. Like, what's your, what's, you know, the next steps? Or, like, how do you see that playing out in that scenario?
Ben: Totally. Well, if we imagine...
Ben: You know, if we imagine the other scenario where we find a capsule from an alien civilization that sends it here and it has all their DNA and all their stories and all their wisdom, that would be, you know, probably the greatest find in human, human history. And, and so, um. I don't know if we'd bring aliens back to life or, but, um, but there, there was, yeah, it would both be a record of a civilization.
Ben: Um, but then by including the DNA of everything, there is the potential that it, it could be used to. Um, and so that's, that's like, there's some nuances here. So part of the vision is, okay, we're sending out a record, but a record is only so useful. It's like, okay, something might find it or in a doomsday situation, we'd go and get it and we recover something, which, uh, the bigger vision here is that in the future.
Ben: Maybe a small group of humans get on a starship and go to the stars. And, um, only a few humans would go and maybe they would be like cryogenically frozen for the 100 year journey to get to another star system. Um, they would bring with them the. The blueprint of a million humans and all different plants and animals and in case they find a new planet and that and they're there to populate a new world and, um, and that's likely how it will happen in the future.
Ben: It existed. Many sci fi. Books and that's, you know, and movies and that's, that's a bit further out. But the concept is, is that we're saving that bank to then go populate new worlds in the future. And that, you know, we're no, no like promises yet, but that's, that's the vision of what we want to do for people.
Ben: It's like, okay, you're coming on this journey and maybe you'll get born again on a new world someday.
Nick: Wow. Yeah. In, in one thing you touched on. Uh, that I feel is very important. And one thing I love about your mission is space accessibility. You know, there's been a lot of hate thrown around the internet for these billionaires who fly to space and have these like space companies with their toy projects is perceived by some.
Nick: And so I would love for you to just speak more about, you know, the importance of human implants and accessibility to
Ben: space. Totally. Um, yeah, I see this as a, a first real mass market. consumer community based way for people to be part of space. And it's, it's kind of like a, you know, a space agency for earth or a space agency for humanity.
Ben: It's, it's the people's space movement. And increasingly the, the vision is that this is a democratized, decentralized. Movement that lives on beyond me and lives on beyond all of us is, is that it's like we're laying, uh, creating a foundation that its purpose is to ripple life across the galaxy and that that is meant to be.
Ben: Decentralized power and is meant to be, um, a democratized movement where the people who are part of it or whoever's part of it, then have a voice in how it how it works. And so, yeah, this is this is, uh, that's the vision. This is a community movement to back up earth and spread life to the stars. And, uh.
Ben: Somewhat like a Noah's Ark mission and, um, somewhat like a seed bank, but really making it about, about humanity, about all of us, about inclusion, about, um, about all the species and really being a movement for life.
Nick: Yeah. It feels like, um, in this point in our history. You know, we need a unifying force. Um, I feel like there's a couple of different scenarios that could happen.
Nick: Either one, we all come together as one species and, um, we all do this mission together, uh, in some capacity. Or the other one is we need a common enemy, you know, having that moment. God, you know, God forbid, because I think it will happen soon, but we won't go into that or the aliens do touch down and present themselves.
Nick: And so, you know. I feel as a life ship could be that force that gets us in touch with our humanity, not as an American, as Russian, as Ukrainian, as Chinese, but together as one species. So I would love to speak more about your vision for the decentralized human hub that you describe and where you feel like this is going
Ben: totally.
Ben: It's uh, it's a unifying mission. It's about It's about all of humanity. It's about all of life. It's about Earth. It's about life in the universe. Um, it, it really is gets us to, to, yeah, step back or step out and, and realize that we're, we're part of life in the universe and we're part of what the universe is doing and that, um, and that we're, you know, I, I think, I think we could all agree that there's.
Ben: Some bugs in our human operating system of how we're, uh, how we're relating and, and dividing up that ourselves. And, um, and this can be a pure mission of just about, okay, here's the blueprint of who we are and here's, here's, here's the inspirational stories we want to send out there. And here's, here's what we want to be at our best.
Ben: And, and it can be a way for all those different people to have a voice in that mission.
Nick: Yeah. So one of the things that, um, gets brought up for me when we're talking about space is we always hear stories about the space race. Right. That happened a couple of decades ago and where the world was all competing to get to the moon and get into space. It was such a beautiful movement. And, you know, I guess my question is, you know, what do you feel like, um, could bring back that excitement and what part of this do you feel like, um, is iteration of that, uh, kind of yearning and that, um, human desire to go into space.
Ben: We were at a very exciting time for space and, uh, Yeah, the space race and getting people to the moon was an exciting time. And that really, really was a huge, a huge push for the United States for humanity. There was, there was a lot that happened in space and then it, and then no one went back to the moon for 50 years.
Ben: And now with what SpaceX has done and the new rockets that are becoming available, um, there. That just exponentially more powerful and, uh, and reusable, so they're more like airplane rides and they're just fundamentally going to change access to space and allow, uh, allow settlements to be built on the moon, allow, allow people to be living on Mars and, um, and in the coming decade, I feel will.
Ben: That's that's what everyone's aiming for is to have permanent presence on on the moon in the coming decade. And then Mars several years after that. And so it really is becoming an a lot is is starting to happen. And a lot of companies are going to be built around doing all the different things you need in space.
Ben: Because everything we do here on earth, you need you need in space pretty much. Um, and then also is becoming much more accessible. And there's There's been a lot of people that are now normal people and not trained astronauts flying up into the edge of space and, um, and over time to do a long distance airplane flight to, if you go from to the other side of the world, it's actually space is only 300 kilometers up.
Ben: So it's actually much more fuel efficient to fly to space and fly through. Um, Through zero atmosphere, slowing you down and land on the other side of the world than is to fly an atmosphere and push through the wind for 20 hours of flying or whatever. So over the coming decade, those things will start to become more and more available where it's just like, Oh, you're flying to Thailand.
Ben: You just go on a rocket and you go to space and you land on the other side. And that becomes the. The affordable, like way that makes sense to do just because before rockets were crazy expensive because they were built with super old technology and, and they couldn't afford to, um, take risks on them. And, uh, and, and they were one time use things, but now as they start to become more like airplanes and fly all the time, then.
Ben: Then the risk goes away from all the testing and all the, uh, all, all the advances in technology and they become the, the more affordable way to do things. And so, yeah, in the coming bits, I feel like we'll, we'll have, it's like the railroads are open and we'll have regular flights going to the moon and we'll have flights going up to space and space is really becoming accessible.
Ben: And, and, but that still is not. You know, there still hasn't been like a movement where all these people that want to be part of space exploration, um, have a, have an easy way to do it in a way to participate in. And so that's part of what I see life ship bringing is that it is a way for anyone to watch a rocket launch and know a piece of them is on it and, uh, send a piece of them up, up, up to the international space station, up to the moon.
Ben: We want to go to Mars. And so it's a way for people. To be part of what's happening in space and to go along for the ride, even if they're not the one going on the six month journey to Mars, that they, people can be part of this. And, and so part of it also is that we, uh, want to send our capsules and we're working on being on all sorts of other interesting missions.
Ben: So there's, there's companies building gas stations in space. There's companies building asteroid mining to go out to asteroids. And we want to send our tiny capsules with. Um, with the DNA of, of all sorts of people out to these different places, both because our mission is to create a distributed backed up, um, copy of earth across the solar system and beyond.
Ben: So it's part of our mission to be on all these different things, but our community, we want to, we want to include them on the coolest missions that are part of this rapidly developing Uh, space ecosystem and help tell the story of what all is happening by a participatory way that people are a part of it.
Nick: Yeah, it's, it's beautiful how, um, modular you've created this. It's like you have this small cap because correct me if I'm wrong, but all the DNA and all the information that you're collecting, how small is it when it actually goes on the spacecraft to be sent out into space?
Ben: So our current capsule is the size of a coin and we can fit.
Ben: We can fit a million people inside that coin and, um, and then there's data as well. So it's, it's people's DNA and then the data and then all different species DNA. Cause DNA is tiny. Information is tiny. And, uh, and our model is to put a whole bunch of these all around. And some of these we might integrate into a monument or, um, or some specific type of, of, uh, object that we put in different places around space to make it, to, to make it like a monument.
Ben: Um, but, uh, yeah, at the core, like the seed of what we're creating is just a, the size of a coin really.
Nick: Yeah. I, I mean, I feel like there's so many different ideas. around this, um, and so many different ways to leverage the same systems that you've created. Uh, I, I want to do something. So we have a venture studio.
Nick: We love ideating with different creators. I would just love to like throw out some ideas and just kind of like kick them around and, um, just share with you some things that popped up as I did deep dive and research into, into your company yesterday. Um, so one of the things, um, You actually touched on one of them, which is like a personal space memorial, um, which is you kind of already doing this in a way.
Nick: Um, one of the things that we look very closely at is honoring those who have passed and I find it fascinating, you know, how much land we use. in the process of memorializing our, our dead. You know, we take up all this land and the space and I find it fascinating. If you just imagine for a second, a thousand, a million Graves , you know, of having this process of memorializing in real life versus the possibility of memorializing a million people on the size of a coin on a capsule , you know, um, you know, is that something you've ever from an angle of, you know, using it to honor the debt or possibly even reserving space on a future mission for your DNA once you have passed.
Ben: Totally. We have, we have people that have passed away that or that their family members have passed away and have added their DNA onto this. And for those that don't have access to the DNA, we also have put ashes on these as well. And that, um. You know, it's a way to honor and memorialize and it's, it's, it's part of it.
Ben: Um, you know, our core mission is, is the DNA because that actually has, has a use in the future, but the ashes are, are a memorial and they're a sentimental part. And then the whole experience that we're creating is meant to save your forever legacy. And we have, uh, we're, we're working on an AI experience that interviews you about your, your, your story and your life and your purpose.
Ben: And it's good. I learned a lot talking to this AI chatbot about myself and it wrote up like a beautiful biography of my life and my dreams and my purpose. And I was like, Whoa, I've never, like, I've never written something like that, that was beautiful. And so there is. There is a whole experience that people do in personal growth workshops and exercises and retreats of essentially writing your obituary and writing, writing the story of your life.
Ben: And so we're, we're using, uh, an AI to help interview you to then write your story. And, and, uh, that's a piece of this as well. And so that's applicable to people. To kids to like people of all ages and for people to write the story of someone who passed away. And so it, it does bridge this and it does open it up beyond just a tombstone and a memorial.
Ben: And it is like, uh, okay, let's, let's memorialize ourselves while we're living.
Nick: Yeah. I love that deep reflection. Of working with these chatbots. I mean, the things he thinks can do now is absolutely astounding. So it's, um, it's wild, um, how much potential there is to impact every corner of our universe. And it's really great to hear that you are also actively embracing this technology.
Nick: Um, Yeah. Another idea we had was, um, you know, some of these, um, agreements that we hope to put in place or possibly even as a peace effort, you know, like actually having maybe one of these caps to go up as a mix of Ukrainian and Russian DNA. You get everybody who's signing the petition to end the war, mix that into a capsule, actually send that up into space and maybe even partner with a Russian company to do that.
Nick: I mean, I think this could also have some implications in terms of not only our own stories, but also the agreements we make as a species in a way to expand that on into, into our contracts into
Ben: space. Totally. Yeah. These are. Um, like when the, when the Apollo astronauts went to the moon, they, they left a plaque there that says, I think it says we come in peace for all mankind or something like that.
Ben: And so, yes, space can be this. Okay. What are we saying together? What are we, um, what message are we sending out there? And, uh, totally, we could send a capsule with all sorts of Russian stories and all sorts of Ukrainian stories. And a collaborative note between the two of How they, how they want to be remembered and how they want their, their cultures represented in it and how they, what the wishes there are for, um, for, for how we live together.
Nick: Yeah, it's, it's, it's a beautiful palette, um, in terms of encapsulating information that, um, goes into the stars. Cause it doesn't belong to anybody. And obviously there's like some. You know, in terms of like space ownership, there's a lot of negotiation that's going to have to happen around that. But for the time being, it is open ground and, um, bringing, um, in, in bringing that to a decentralized collectively owned model.
Nick: And it's kind of, I feel like that's a bit of what you're doing is really beautiful. Um, when we were at floor straw, you also mentioned the possibility of turning this into a Dow. And for those who don't know, a decentralized autonomous organization, um, and having some different elements to it. Do you care to share, you know, kind of what you're feeling into around that and, um, you know, how that can also enhance your mission?
Ben: Yes, so like what I was mentioning before around this being a democratized, decentralized movement for humanity and movement for life, um, a DAO is a new type of tool that enables that, and it codifies. How an organization runs and it, and it, um, gives a decentralized power to the members of it. And, um, and then it sets out the rules and the operations of how the organization is run based on how, how the people are, are voting and having to say.
Ben: And so the big vision of this is that we're, yeah, we're creating a billion year organization that, that may not just be the. Send life to another place, but then when the life grows there, we've, we've maybe codified how then it then goes to spread again. And, um, and so really it's, it's meant to be this long range organization that lives beyond quote single person or a single, single like group of people.
Ben: And it's more like, how do we set this out there and set this free? And, um, and set the way that life moves outward. Um, I have an eight year old daughter and her and I recently watched the movie contact, which is about, uh, it's about. SETI, Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. And in the movie, um, the main character played by Jodie Foster, she gets, she gets, we receive a message from extraterrestrials that tells us how to build a machine and she goes in the machine and gets transported to another place.
Ben: And, um, They don't give her any information to, to, like, come back and definitively say they told me the answer to the universe is this. And so I can prove that I went there and it all happens, like, in beyond time, like, in an instance. So it's not like she disappeared and came back. And so when she's there, she was.
Ben: She asked some questions and she says, um, yeah, she says, is there anything that you tell me? Or is there anything? And they essentially say, this is just how we've done. We've contacted and made contact with other species for billions of years. This is how it was done before we existed. This is the aliens.
Ben: This is how how it continues to be done. So in that movie, the concept was that okay, some aliens like figured out how to reach out and send a message. They figured out the best kind of message to send as to To another civilization, they taught them how to make contact and have an interaction, but they didn't give them anything more.
Ben: They kind of like left them on their own, but made that initial bit of contact and and the line there of this is just how it's been done before we were here. And this is how it's been done. That's. The vision of this and that's the vision of what a DAO or whatever like evolves beyond that could be is that okay we're creating the the vision and the system and the organization and the way to start the process of rippling life out from earth and that um and that it's likely we're the first or we're the only intelligent organization at all.
Ben: Ones in our, in our galaxy, like I, that's, I don't know for sure, but like there's, there's possibility of other intelligent life. I'm sure there's other intelligent life of the universe, but, um, we might be the ones that start to ripple life across our galaxy. And maybe, maybe there's others out there, maybe not, but like, um, the vision is that we're creating that billion year organization that then starts that process.
Nick: Yeah, and one of the things I think about around contact, it's like, what are the ethics of how we interact with the species? We're thinking of it from a, you know, a civilization has been around for millions of years. What are the ethics of how they would be interacting with us? You know, Is it okay to just touch down and contaminate the community, not even in terms of like bacteria, but I mean, you know, throwing the world for a big curveball, you know, if you have the ability and you've risen to that point in your trajectory of consciousness and of, you know, whatever you need to get past that great barrier and can make contact, do you?
Nick: And if so, it's like, you know, how do we approach it as a species? I mean, is this something that you're exploring with your DAO or have any strong opinions on?
Ben: Totally. There's, you know, there's, there's some that think like, oh, we, we don't want to contaminate anything. We don't want to, we don't want to disturb anything.
Ben: Um, and I feel like they're. Like, yes, we don't want to just send, send bacteria to Mars and, and mess up all the science we can do and all the learnings we can do. Um, and we don't want to send something to a place that has life and it contaminates it and destroys that. Um, but you know, I do feel like there is an importance to continuing life and spreading life and that the, the risk of us just.
Ben: Being insular and not sending anything out is bigger than the risk of us contaminating something out there. And, and so I do feel that there is part of this is just opening the conversation and putting it out there as like, I, Hey, we think this is. A grand mission for humanity. And this is, this is one of our possible reasons for being here.
Ben: One of the biggest contributions we can have in the universe is to continue life and, and that there is a responsible way of doing that. And, um, and to begin that conversation of how, how we do that and how we do that as, uh, as a species, as a planet and, um, and continue life in the universe.
Nick: Yeah, I, I, I feel like, I mean, if there was a point, you know, I do think that expanding life beyond earth is, um, it's, it's a great, it's a great mission.
Nick: I feel like everyone can get, can get behind. Um, you know, 1, 1 of the things that, um, I've noticed. Um, and actually I have some data to back this up is the rise of the star seed tag on tick tock. So as of like a week ago, there's actually 1 billion plus views on tick tocks that mentioned the word star seed and people speaking to how they came from the stars and their identification is non human entities.
Nick: Um, you know, I would love to just get your thoughts on this trend and, you know, what you feel like this says about our connection to the stars.
Ben: Totally. Um, Starseed is a word that I, I continually play with. Are we using that in our brand or not? And cause it does feel like it is the core representation of what we're doing is we're like, saving your essence, your code, and like a bit of your consciousness to send to the stars and, and to create your star seat in the future. And, and so it does deeply resonate the concept there. Um, and I think star seat is something that. You know, it also, there's a scientific term that kind of makes sense there.
Ben: Like, okay, it's about seeding life in the stars and star seeds have this spiritual connection of, um, yeah. Of, of, of people's connection to uh, to. To themselves being part of another civilization around a at another star system at some point. And, um, and yeah, I've, I've had experiences that make me feel like, okay, part of me came from somewhere else.
Ben: Um, and I, I don't have a full grasp of all of that, but like, um, yeah, I do feel like that's kind of what we're doing is that we're. Um, either we're potentially connected in consciousness to other, uh, other civilizations and other conscious entities out there. And, and they're with us and they're guiding us and that time and space in our own illusion.
Ben: And that really is just like the intelligence of the universe. And so other intelligences that. Have come before and have come after, or will come after, like are all there guiding the unfolding of the universe and that, um, and so in that I feel like our consciousness and every moment of our existence is connected and is, uh, unfolding as is supposed to.
00:38:40
Ben: And um, and yeah, I feel like we're being guided by everything that's ever happened or ever will happen in the universe. And that part of that guiding is that. Of life continuing beyond earth and of life rippling out. And I, uh, what's come to me in deep journeys is that, okay, the earth has this, this destiny of, of rippling life out across.
Ben: And that someday, like something will look back and be like, whoa. It all started back on that. Blue and green white planet like, and, and now, uh, now it's like all over the place and all this has come from back in that early earth. And it's some~~, some like~~ story that gets told of earth and humanity that then~~, uh, you know,~~ gets
Nick: carried on.
Nick: Yeah, even, even thinking about the concept of a star seed, um, and what you are effectively doing, you know, creating these small seeds of dna, the consent to different places of the universe, and the goal is to expand life into it. I can imagine the scenario very far in the future. Where we actually identify different planets of which can potentially contain human life and actually send down capsules of the DNA in order to seed that planet with that divine creation.
Nick: You know, with our genome, with, with a mix of the genome of the plants, of the medicines of the people in order to effectively. Um, create life on that planet. Is that, you know, is that something that you see this as the building blocks too, that sort of future, is that something that you feel like would be on your billionaire roadmap?
Nick: Uh, with life ship,
Ben: it is. It's, it's either sending the seeds out or sending the ships with the, with the, the banks in 'em that then are used to grow new populations, but. Um, yeah, this, the, the scalable big vision is that it's seeds that, that crash into somewhere, grow stuff, and hopefully it grows into intelligence and, and then it also can spread and reproduce and, um, and yeah, it be, it be a living organism that reproduces and continues to spread his life.
Ben: And it's, it's possible that's how we got here. It's possible that we're. Just part of this. And, um, and I, I think I'm like 50% that life originated here and 50% that some sort of spores came here or, and, and grew us. Um, but yeah, it's, it's possible that that's, that's just what we're doing is we're part of this.
Ben: Conscious, intelligent entity that like started with a little spore and crashed into earth and knew what it was growing to and has grown to intelligent life that then can create the seeds to spread 'em again and we're, we're just part of that whole system.
Nick: Both options are equally possible and I feel like, I feel like equally terrifying, right?
Nick: From my perspective, and maybe terrifying is not the right word, but on one hand it's either you, we came from an external place, they equipped us with these plant medicines and you know, this different mix of stuff that turned us into what we are. Or we are the first, right? Like we, this is genuinely the first time in the history of the universe where.
Nick: The right mix of, uh, computers and meat, computers being human beings have come together to have the ability to even spread this across the universe. Um, you know, I feel like, uh, the first situation is much more likely where we're not the first to have this idea, but, um, you know, taking that, encapsulating it into, uh, billionaire mission.
Nick: I, I I, I really, it's very inspiring what you're doing. Um, you know, and, and also as an engineer, as a software engineer, you know, I'm very inspired by your history is a hardware engineer. You've worked on some of the coolest project and space and also. Um, encapsulating genome engineering and like all the things that come around that, as well as artificial intelligence into what you're doing.
Nick: Um, you know, I would love, um, for you to speak to, um, some of the other cool stuff in space and also some of your advice for other spiritually motivated creatives as to, um, you know, some of the motivations for getting into space
Ben: work. Yeah, yeah. One thing I wanna touch on first is that, You know, we've talked a lot about this, like billionaire and sci-fi and rippling life and impacting life on other worlds, but a, a huge, you know, we met in the Costa Rican rainforest, and that is like, I am deeply, deeply, deeply passionate about earth and all the speeches here and caring for earth, and so, A big part of this mission is to do this out there thing about life in the universe, to preserve Earth today as well.
Ben: And so some ways we're doing that or we will do that, are around, um, Like tokens, just limited tokens for the elephants and the giraffes and all the species on it, and you can sponsor the species. And that, that, a big part of that goes to preserving ecosystems today. And so we're, we're core to the mission is to do like much more net benefit for earth than the resources we use to spread the, the seeds to the stars.
Ben: And so that, that's like, uh, yeah, a weaving of, okay, this being a natural care for earth while, while. Spreading life in the universe. Um,
Nick: yeah, that's one piece. And, and just on that, just on that subject as well, I believe that, um, guardianship around the earth and taking care of our spaceship, if you will, is such an important topic.
Nick: And I love that you're also leaning into that. And Yeah, and also, I mean, yeah, I mean it, do, do you have a roadmap in place of some of the different things you wanna touch on? I think these are all great ideas and, um, you know, identifying like how that progression happens. I, I feel like would be interesting that so many different people, um, are networking.
Nick: I'm sure in yours
Ben: too. Yeah. Um,
Ben: So as far as roadmap, we're, we're, we're working on being on, we're going to the moon, we're working on going to deep space and past asteroid. We're working on getting to Mars, um, and as really when these commercial landers go there, as far as like the, the d n A bank, um, we're starting by just putting your DNA on the moon and then, and then we'll add.
Ben: DNA sequencing and help you learn a bit about, um, yourself in that process and, uh, be the digital bank of yourself that then you can pass on to your, to future generations as well. Um, the, the personal growth will increasingly be, uh, AI that interviews you, tells you your story, but then also workshops or courses you could do with, with, with real teachers that then help you, um, you know, maybe presence.
Ben: You give you a bit of setting, setting space and intention, and then, Get you to leave a voice memo about your, your life purpose, or get you to talk about your childhood and your dreams, or talk about your family, or talk about the Earth, or, um, so increasingly we want the experience to be one of, uh, personal growth and intention and helping you explore who you are and why you're here and what, what your place in the cosmos is.
Ben: Um, Yeah, and there's, there's a bunch of other aspects that this touches on as, as we go further of both in genomics and, and personal legacy and story, but then also in the kind of stuff we can do in space.
Nick: I love the angle of, um, that integrated self-reflection. Like actually seeing like your life as a ship.
Nick: Yeah. That's populated with all these different components of your story and your legacy. Um, and I, I feel like there's a lot of beauty of taking all those elements, like spinning it down to something so small that can be part of the collective story of humanity that's incent to these places. It's really beautiful.
Ben: Yep. Yep. Yeah. And then we're, yeah, like I'm working with a yoga teacher who's going to, who's, she's creating a, a full moon experience for a big group of people to, to put their intention in this during the, the yoga ceremony and set their full moon intentions and their full moon intentions go to the moon.
Ben: And, um, so yeah, I think there's also ways that we can tie and deepen a person's. Connection with the moon and with, uh, with setting intentions in the process.
Nick: Yeah, I like, I, I love the idea of being able to sign up for future missions. Like I, I feel like there's, um, if you say that, like I'm, I'm not sure if this is actually the number, but if the capacity for the number of objects for that mission is like a million units of data, right?
Nick: Having the ability to encapsulate either it's my intention or potentially my manifestation or anything that is relevant to me, whether it's. You know, my grandfather's story, obituary and be able to sign up for future missions. I feel like that's something that I personally be very interested in doing.
Nick: Um, I, I don't know if you've thought about that or, um, you know, what that kind of looks like, but if you have like, the schedule for the next three years and be able to like schedule in different missions, I think that would be a very cool way to, um, position the product and position, um, our ability to tap into it at the right point in time based on our trajectory with our own personal growth.
Ben: Exactly. Yeah. We're working on being on rockets every couple of months and you'll be able to watch the rocket launch and, and continue to add to your story. And it be an engaging thing where it's, it's like, oh, you keep going to different places and, um, And we're still working out whether that'll be you paid by the mission or, or there's a subscriptions, sir that you sign up for, or a membership you are in this or lifetime membership or lifetimes membership multi, how
Nick: many lifetimes you want of support
Ben: and then.
Nick: I've never seen a 500 year subscription before.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, one of the things you brought up earlier that again warmed my perception of even like, what's possible in the grand skiing. Cause they're talking about, you know, billion year roadmap here is, um, the possibility of retrieval of the first pot and take to a new place. Mm-hmm. Like, Being the first to actually be on the moon, and then like for future missions, that being retrieved and then sent to another place and like actually doing a lap around the stars just blows
Ben: my mind.
Ben: Yeah, that's, that's, and we haven't promised that yet, but that's part of the, you know, this, the whole concept of, okay, my DNA is in a capsule on the moon for the future. That just opens up. A thousand million different stories you could write, uh, of that. And like one of the possibilities is, okay, future humans go and pick it up and take it to the stars and you get born again on a new world.
Ben: And, uh, And then that happens to get it again, and you get born again on all different worlds. And so, yeah, that, that is one of the possibilities is that it's a, it's a capsule on the moon for future humans to take with them and populate new worlds.
Nick: And, and as a spiritual creator and like talking from like one guy to the next who's got all this realm of possibility with what you're already doing, how do you filter and figure out how to prioritize, how to lead your company and lead this roadmap and lead this down into the next phase with all this different potential?
Ben: Mm-hmm. It's. You know, I, I, I have limited bandwidth and limited things I can work on and, uh, pretty small team right now. And so I'm both focusing on funder, like we've sold 3000 of these, so we, we've shown there's a product I'm working both on. Revenue opportunities and partnerships. And cuz I really just need to get the, the company sustainable and, uh, underway so it can grow and we can invest more in marketing and more in the brand and more in space missions and more in the product experience.
Ben: Um, but really to get that initial focus of, okay, how do I get it to the point where it's sustainable and going and can expand and grow, um, and, and balancing between. Building out the experience and building out the community, but then a lot of effort on, on a fundraising round, a lot of effort on initial partnerships that bring in revenue.
Ben: Um, some effort on marketing, but I've kind of paused a lot of our like paid ads and other advertising right now. Um, and. Yeah. And then the whole community development and Dow will come along and it, it feels like all these things are, we're doing a test run with, uh, with someone, building out the AI to interview people.
Ben: Um, and it, it's all kind of flowing and happening and evolving simultaneous in a way. And I do need to be very, um, yeah. Have a strategy of like, okay, these are the actual things I'm focusing on, and then these are, these are the areas that I'm moving forward on.
Nick: Yeah, it's, I mean, there's just so much massive potential in what you're doing. You know, as, um, somebody who's, you know, I've been, uh, CTO O of companies in the SaaS space, like digitally as well as in the D two C space with physical products. And I know that in the beginning you want the D two C route.
Nick: Which is sending a physical kit to people in the mail, which is awesome to put the DNA and send back. Um, but I love that you're foraying into a digital offering too, right? Something that doesn't have the overhead and the, uh, and the shipping and all the complexity of it. So to have the ability for, um, a person to contribute a message in a way that, and may maybe have the D two C offers an upsell at the end.
Nick: Um, I feel like would be a great way to, uh, achieve some level of scale and, um, you know, really get this thing out there. Um, if, and, you know, and even positioning it from a, um, place of not scarcity, but a realistic capacity, right? Saying, Hey, there's gonna be a million messages that go on this next ship that leaves an October.
Nick: Right? And just saying, you know, this is the maximum amount, maybe just call it a thousand. Right? And having them fill that up and then like having releases. Based on capacity for people to add in additional messages. I feel like there's a lot of potential in that sort of setup in terms of managing your inventory, but inventory being the messages that are sent encapsulating to the pods, to the different on the different missions.
Ben: Yep. And, uh, to totally, there is a digital product will be the either freemium or low cost, like way that millions or, or a billion people get, get on this at some point. Like, you know, one can imagine. Sending a record of humanity to the stars that has a billion people represented in, in it. And, um, and yeah, that would probably be a free thing.
Ben: And, and then there would be other products where people can add to it and create on top of it.
Nick: Yeah. And, and if accessibility, I mean, I just see, I've listened to a bunch of your talks and like, obviously read your website. If accessibility is the key mission, you know, figuring out an easy way that everybody can, you know, metaphorically hop onto the spaceship, I feel like in a freemium world would be, um, you know, really could just help all different, um, products, all the different products take off.
Nick: Um, and uh, yeah, I feel like there's, man, there's so much potential getting creative with this thing.
Ben: There is, there's a lot, there's a lot that can flow out of it. It's, uh, it's, it's exciting. I've, I continue to get enough like winks from the universe that like, okay, this is, this is a big thing. And um, yeah, I know, I know where it's
Nick: headed.
Nick: Yeah. And one of the things we talked about at Floro, um, I think is another, uh, interesting point. That a lot of spiritual creators encounter is, uh, you mentioned, um, the universe teasing you with something different, uh, during one of your, uh, experiences. Um, and I would just love for you to speak to, you know, how did you know that, um, different path wasn't for you?
Nick: Cause I remember you mentioned you're gonna stay on this current path even though it was put in front of you. You know, how do you feel into whether or not that's right for you?
Ben: Yeah. Yeah, so when I've gone into these plant medicine ceremonies, sometimes I. And I, I think I've learned to, like I've, I've had, I've had an ask or a curiosity of like, what takes my company to the next level or what takes this, like, what's meant to happen here?
Ben: And oftentimes the messages are much more like deeper about your way of being or your way of showing up or your family or, or something that's like deeper core learning or lesson about being a human and. Oftentimes that then is what's impacting your, what's holding you back into your company or what's what, what's, what's opening up for the next stage of, of, uh, uh, of it.
Ben: And one of the things that happened was this, this whole all night ceremony was up until, uh, up, up through sunrise, uh, late in the night, on the second night I was, and, and all my lessons so far that night had been about, um, Uh, yeah, my life and who I am and how I'm showing up. And, um, Beau, beautiful deep lessons.
Ben: And then I was sit, sitting by the fire, meditating and, uh, and I felt my. Like my mind going, but it felt directed towards like, oh, maybe it's time to like, let this go and maybe there's something in this space that you're supposed to be doing, or may maybe you want to just like live in Costa Rica and, and like focus on building a house and, and like connecting with the land and kind of let that go.
Ben: And like, and I was like, Part of me, like the, the part of me where my mind went is like, is, is she showing me that I'm time to walk away from this and, and start to start to go in that direction? And then like, after a few of these different routes, she took me on, um, Like there was a part that just like came in a warrior stance of like, no, I know what my path is and I know what I'm doing.
Ben: And then she was kind of like, yes, yes, yes. You got the lesson. Like the lesson was like, you're on the path, you're doing this, this is exactly what you're supposed to be doing. Like, I just threw some little teaser there to just like, just get you to like realign and just like get that alignment there. And um, yeah.
Ben: And so some lessons come in those, in those sort of
Nick: directions. Yeah. Um, you know, one of the things I've been playing with, um, with the, with the medicine, the messages that these plants and these spirits have bias. They have a mission that's also being enacted. So, you know, just something I'm, I'm not saying this is what happened to you, but you know, I've just been thinking about, you know, when we interact with these different spirits and these plants, it's like, what sort of bias are they projecting?
Nick: You know, the fact that you're sitting with the medicine of Flore straw in ceremony and there happens to be plots of land available and that you as a spiritual creator who knows hardware and space and rockets and all this cool shit, you know, like is there a certain bias to the plant to have that desire for you to build on that land?
Nick: Right? And it's just something that, um, You know, I've been playing around with, even as I, as I'm, uh, intending to buy a plot of land at Florist Straw, you know, it's like, um, in going into, I'll be sitting at that medicine, you know, what sort of biases play into, uh, these experiences that we have and, um, you know, identifying what, um, what we learned in this Warriors journey that I'm doing here in Costa Rica is ax a sphinx is, comes in the form of a temptation to deviate us from our path.
Nick: Right. Identifying those things is, and understanding, you know, what those transition points that are potentially blocking us from either going deeper or creating a, a deliberate desire in front of us that, uh, will devi us away from what we're really, really seeking. And it sounds like you encountered one of those very explicitly in that medicine, medicine experience.
Nick: I like that.
Ben: Yeah. I'm, I'm writing down spinx temptations that, that would deviate you from your path. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick: And, and you shared with me, um, as well, um, that you had another message to also move home to a different location and kind of change up your lifestyle back in California. Do you wanna share with us, um, how you, you know, change transformed your life after this ceremony and what's been different for you since coming back to the United States?
Ben: Yeah, so I, I had lived in the city in San Francisco for a while, and then I moved down to San Diego. I was living in the suburbs outside of San Diego and I have an eight year old daughter and her mom lives down here now, so that, that's really grounded me a bit to this area. Um, and I, but I wasn't feeling the suburbs and I, I, even though I had like cool park near me, um, There, I, I missed the city, but then I also wanted to be on land and in nature.
Ben: And this opportunity came up, uh, this place I had been hanging out at, um, more in the country, in San Diego and on gorgeous land and in community and like epic land that you can just walk for for hours, um, right. Connecting on the property and, um, And the opportunity was there and I had pretty much said, yes, I'll take this, this house that just opened up.
Ben: Um, but it was still, it still hadn't fully integrated cuz part of me was like, I need, I need to be in the city and I need to be in the energy and I need to be like meeting people all the time to build this company cuz I'm building a fast. Growing tech, tech company and like, I need to be in that energy.
Ben: And this whole trip to Costa Rica and in the medicine ceremony as well, it just kept showing me go live on land. That's where you're, you're, you're meant to create this from, and that's where, where it's. The insights come through in nature and on land and um, and this very much is a mission for earth and for life.
Ben: And, um, and I can always do my trips to the city, but for now, live in, yeah, I came back from Costa Rica and immediately moved into this, uh, this two bedroom little. Cottage cabin on, on epic land and there's sheep and goat, or there's sheep and chickens and um, I don't know, like lots, lots of, lots of life around.
Ben: It's, it's pretty cool.
Nick: And do you feel like it's been a positive transformation for you?
Ben: It has. I feel like ever since I left San Francisco two years ago, I haven't felt like I've. Been home. Um, and I've, you know, I travel a lot, so I am probably half nomadic. And then I come back here and I've gotten different, rented different places for three months or six months and tried different areas.
Ben: But, uh, ever since I moved here, I, I feel like I've landed and I feel like I'm home. And all the other places I've been. Um, I haven't unpacked my storage unit and unpacked art and hung art on the walls. And there's, there's just, I love the nomadic journey and I love, I love, uh, the freedom that that has.
Ben: And there's also, I. Um, different phases of life and, and being able to hang some art on the walls and have a place that, uh, that feels home and feels all yours is, has definitely been a, uh, a remembering of, of that. That's something I was, I was searching for.
Nick: I love that you followed that intuition and made this change.
Nick: It's just like, cuz I, I feel like a lot of people consider doing it or they get the message to make that move. So to witness someone actually make that transition and feeling like they landed in a good spot is amazing to, to witness.
Ben: Yep. Yep. It, it feels good.
Nick: Great. All right, Ben. Uh, where can people find you on the internet?
Ben: So, Our website is life ship.com. And people can send their DNA for $99 to the moon. You can send your pet's dna, n a, you can send ashes, you can send photos. Um, and then increasingly we'll have more offerings. And, but that's the way to initially get involved. You can also put your email address in there and, and you get a free experience where you can add your a, a bit of, a bit of your story, and we send that to the moon for free.
Ben: So life ship.com. Um, you know, we're not as active as I'd like to be on social, but we're building it. We're, we're starting to get, uh, more stuff going both at, at Life Ship on Instagram. And I'm Ben. I'm Ben. Life ship at, on Instagram. Um, and then also life ships on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. And same with me, Ben Haldeman.
Nick: Awesome. You can also go look up at the moon cuz you know you're pro you're gonna be on there soon. So Yeah. If you wanna find Yeah,
Ben: go, go connect with life in the universe and you're, you're part of the hope thing.
Nick: Yeah. Awesome. All right, Ben, thank you so much for joining us today, brother. You're such an inspiration and thank you so much for sharing your energy and, um, with everything you're doing, I can't wait to see where this heads a billion years from now.
Nick: Thank you
Ben: so much. Same. Nick really loved our conversation and. Glad our, the universe brought us together.
Nick: Likewise, brother.